Music used to be about “sticking it to the man.” It’s now the most conformist industry there is. Hayley Mary has seen the transformation firsthand. Hayley was the lead singer of Australian indie rock band The Jezabels, before launching a successful solo career.

She has recently experienced the wrath of the music establishment, after a controversial Instagram post (complete with a MAGA hat) sparked a cancellation storm. In this special conversation with Will, she speaks out about why she took a stand for free speech, subversion, and the counter-cultural instincts that once made music great.